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Shoulder Safety

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Shoulder Safety

Post by nick on Mon 16 Apr 2012, 10:58 pm

The other day i was paddling and tweaked my shoulder a little bit. I'm totally fine but it got me to start thinking more seriously about paddling and shoulder safety. i think its an interesting topic, does anyone have any tips/comments/ideas?

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:02 am

This may sound crazy, but hand paddles are an excellent way to build up your shoulders, to make them less resistant against shoulder injuries, and to rehab them after a shoulder injury. Of coarse staying in the box with a shafted paddles helps to, but paddling with a shaft does not build the proper muscles for preventing shoulder injuries. They exclusive hand paddlers I know have massive shoulders, and never dislocate them. Check out this website. www.peakperformancepaddles.com
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by echymas on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:07 am

I've always been told to just stay in the box. Meaning do not reach out too far away from your boat. I'm sure the cap'n has some input. Some of my braces I know I'm reaching out way too far and I am conscious of it. Therefore I try to constantly remind myself to stay in the box.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:36 am

Another thing is when bracing with a shafted paddle brace from directly beside you or slightly in front of you. I see a lot of Utah boaters bracing off their back deck. This is not only ineffective, but it is putting your shoulders in dangers. It is a bad habit that is picked up early. Start using sculling braces, and stop bracing off the back deck. I have spent hours in flat water, and opp practicing my brace, and because of that I have a bomber brace. If you loss a low brace to stop from tipping, and a proper high brace to stop from flipping over you will protect your shoulders. If your paddling since info is right, and you have only been paddling since last year. Come to OPP, and I will teach you what I know.
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Craig.Bilderback on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:45 am

+1 Box love.

I have had a couple subluxations. No fun. Make sure you have plenty of rest. I've heard ~ 15 lbs. of pressure can cause a dislocation if your shoulder is in the wrong position. Keep your shoulders in the correct position.

Almost every tweak has come when I was nervous or early season and off my game. I think desperate braces and deep sweep strokes, when you are not confident, pull you out of the box.

I've been tweak free for a few years now. Focus on form and keep cool. Frantic strokes rarely work.




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try out hand paddles and low braces?

Post by telekopter2 on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:36 am

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster wrote:Another thing is when bracing with a shafted paddle brace from directly beside you or slightly in front of you. . . Use sculling braces, and stop bracing off the back deck. I have spent hours in flat water, and opp practicing my brace, and because of that I have a bomber brace. . . . . Come to OPP, and I will teach you what I know.

FSM I'd be interested in both learning some better low braces from you and trying hand paddles at opp this weekend if you're not going anywhere. Friday might work too. Good time for you? thanks,
TK I've pm'd you my digits. Or if prefer me to contact you pm me yours. i'm the guy that was asking you info on welding that boat army green remix back together, last Sat. at the boat swap.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by LarryS on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:53 am

Keep your hands in front of your shoulders. Rotate your body when you have to brace or use a rudder stroke. The box is in front of the plane of your shoulders. Rotating your body will also give your strokes a lot more power.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by brightonb on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 12:52 pm

"This may sound crazy, but hand paddles are an excellent way to build up
your shoulders, to make them less resistant against shoulder injuries"

....umm

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Cap'n RedBeard on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 1:38 pm

Since Clay chimed me in....

FSM, I remember when you had the biggest of big high braces until I told you proper methods at the wave pool. It was like you were reaching out of a 5ft rectangle and there was no such box. Glad to see thats gone with the rivers your running these days.

My first year boating I dislocated my shoulder doing a back deck roll at the wrong time and improperly. Ever since then I have been more focused on proper strokes and braces (and avoid back deck roll all together) and I have not tweaked my shoulder in the water since. What has been said here is all good advice except for the sales pitch about hand paddles (where outreaching is all to common). I would also grab someone to show you how.

One of the best things to do for your shoulders is to work out and not just paddling to gain strength. Its good to have well rounded muscles to keep things tight in the shoulder. You never want to have your rotator-cuff holding any pressure. Doing a lot of push ups goes a long ways. When paddling you are always pulling. That causes an imbalance in your shoulder muscles making it more prone to popping out. A bunch of misc. dumbbell and resistant exercises are great to do too.

One thing I did to keep within "the box" was a brace I used after my injury that keep my arm down forcing me to stay tight. Not saying this is for everyone but it helped me out....


Last edited by Cap'n RedBeard on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by telekopter2 on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 3:14 pm

Cap'n RedBeard wrote:Since Clay chimed me in....

. . .Its good to have well rounded muscles to keep things tight in the shoulder. You never want to have your rotator-cuff holding any pressure. Doing a lot of push ups goes a long ways. When paddling you are always pulling. That causes an imbalance in your shoulder muscles making it more prone to popping out. ...

Awesome advice by the Capt'n.

A related but a lil thread hijack:
Same goes for alpine skiers. we want to train our hamstrings, which oppose the highly used over-relied-upon Quadriceps muscles, to keep from blowing our ACL ligament in our knees.
Running sports do this well. google "Co-contraction knee exercises" to learn more.
google the same replacing knee with shoulder" as there may be such exercises.

Or just rip on tele's. Wink (that's a little misleading. tele folks blow knees too. the unsubstantiated but interesting word of mouth is that they don't. I've tele'd 17 years now without a blown knee using releasable tele bindings

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 8:22 pm

Well Captain, it was not a sales pitch. The problem with most western boaters is that most not only do not hand paddle, but they know nothing about it. I would never lie to make a quick buck, much less if it was going to injury someone in the process. Woody Callaway one of the pioneers of hand paddles used to rave about what it did for shoulders, and many of the hand paddlers I know hand paddle because of to many dislocations. I never reach out when bracing with hand paddles so it is not "all to common." You use your body, your boat, and your knees more than anything. On top of all that it is a different more natural pressure on your shoulders. Several friends of mine that are hand paddlers never suffer from dislocations like their shafted counter parts. If people would try hand paddling from any brand it will change the way you like at boating, and you will see it for what it is. Hand paddling is graceful, hand paddling just as safe, and most of all hand paddling is fun.
For an example of a proper hand paddle high brace check out my buddy Keith Sprinkle. at 4:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK1wUzGHdWI
Until you try hand paddles in something other than flat water don't bash it because you haven't earned that right.
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 8:24 pm

Also Captain stop bringing up one single pool sessions. I was practicing my brace, and yes it was a little high, but every chance you get you mention it. Kinda getting redundant.
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Cap'n RedBeard on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:05 pm

Huh? Im confused. Did someone upset you? Thought this was an advice thread. Sorry if i mentioned that time in the pool again, totally spaced I said it before plus its my claim to fame when you become pro. Redundent? *searches for the pharse hand paddle on utrivers*

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:15 pm

Advice can only be given from someone how has past experience in the subject. So Captain how many times have you used hand paddles in a river?
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Cap'n RedBeard on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:26 pm

Every morning. I wasnt giving advice about my morning routine though.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Duckins on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 9:49 pm

I haven't used hand paddles on the river. But, I am getting tired of hearing about them all the time here and on the 'Buzz.

If you're using a real paddle it is important to learn the low brace early and not make a habit of using the high brace. If you have to use a high brace, keep your elbows in tight.

There is some good info in this thread:
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/high-brace-dislocated-shoulder-37260.html

Also, I think Ken Whiting's videos are pretty useful. I remember him having a good section on shoulder safety. He said paddling backwards is a very good way to build up strength and help prevent dislocations.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Tue 17 Apr 2012, 11:06 pm

Cap'n RedBeard wrote:Every morning. I wasnt giving advice about my morning routine though.
Can't say I am sure what that is supposed to mean. ????
And Duckins sorry I offended you by trying to get the word out about my product. If I think it is relevant, or I finish making a ton like recently I will post. Sorry that is the way it is.
Maybe I will get some Utah boaters to use a few pairs this year, and maybe not. To me it is about trying to show the boating world the benefits of using hand paddles, and if some people want to be close minded, and think they are good enough without them.... Well so be it. Fact is hand paddling has made me a better boater, and it is something I enjoy, sometimes more than using a shafted paddle. I stand by my statement. Hand Paddling will strengthen your shoulder to make them less resistant to shoulder injuries. In hand paddling you do chest press, dips, semi push up, and many other similar exercises. Anyone who thinks that it is bad for shoulders is not a hand paddler, and is bashing something they do not understand. I would trust hand paddles over a shaft to keep me in the box. Why???? Because you don't have a choice to have proper technique while hand paddling you have to stay in the box. Not being rude bro, but I know more about hand paddling than you. Very Happy
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by brightonb on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:32 am

Oh man, it must be that time of year again. I believe that hand paddling will both strengthen the shoulders and add a new dimension to one's paddling. It's not a good selling point to emphasize that they will make one less resistant to shoulder injuries. Just a thought.

Now can someone help me with the below the belt issues. I've had 2 sprained knees and one broken foot. All on different occasions, all while in the boat. All in different boats. What's going on down there?


Last edited by brightonb on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by wasatchbill on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:50 am

Better bulkhead B? Are you pitoning or what? I sure like the foamy cushion in the Villain. I like wearing sneakers with decent insoles in a creeker too.

Shoulders; hmm. Take care of them. I like the paddling backwards idea.
Staying "in the box" is good for sure; but I will say that I subluxated a shoulder not so long ago with a high brace where my elbow was lower than my shoulder. I felt the tweak, and thought wtf, my elbow is lower than my shoulder! (but not much lower). A good chiro popped the tendon back in after it came out recently. I think its the long head bicep tendon.
Going off any kind of drop you are way better off with a low brace than a high brace. I see a lot of beginners going over drops with both blades high, the "air brace" :-). Bad habit.

Here are some good shoulder rehab exercises:
http://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f11/shoulder-dislocation-and-surgery-tr-and-workout-29125.html
"it began with a poor technique high brace...
"Total bill for surgery near $40,000
"keep your elbows in bi+@hes"

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by wasatchbill on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 2:29 am

Flying_Spaghetti_Monster wrote: I stand by my statement. Hand Paddling will strengthen your shoulder to make them less resistant to shoulder injuries.

You mean "more resistant to shoulder injuries" :-)

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 11:03 am

Good info here, and not by someone selling hand paddles http://www.mrponline.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58 opinions from both sides
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by brianteats on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 11:51 am

I don't wanna start shit, never my intentions, but I am getting a little bugged seeing 'hand paddle spam' on forums. You wanna know how you sell hand paddles? Let people see them in action. also- What can they do for me that a shaft paddle can't? That MRP thread has some good testimonials, regarding shoulder health, but lets face it, if something's working for someone(shaft paddling) it's hard to change without actually experiencing the benefits first 'hand'. What I do keep hearing is "shoulder workouts" regardless of using a shaft or not, in preventing injury.

Unless hand paddles improve my lower back problems, I may be changing my warm weather hobby from 'boating' to 'shore-side boating photography' Sad
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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by bencpeters on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:29 pm

brianteats wrote:I don't wanna start shit, never my intentions, but I am getting a little bugged seeing 'hand paddle spam' on forums.

AGREED. A little ridiculous when they end up in almost every post by a certain someone...

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Cap'n RedBeard on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 12:36 pm

Interesting read Duckins. That guy dislocated his shoulder the same way as I and he is also a climber. I wonder if the muscles developed in climbing highers your chances for that type of dislocation. I literary felt my lattisimus dorsi pull the top of my humerus into my armpit. The most common of shoulder dislocations, somewhere around 95%, is an Anterior where the top of the humerus goes forward. The least common, being the type I got, is the Inferior where the top of the humerus goes down.

wasatchbill wrote:
You mean "more resistant to shoulder injuries" :-)
That makes more sense, Bill, if that is what FSM was meaning to say. I do beg the differ about it decreasing your chances of dislocation. I did say I haven't hurt my shoulder since my original injury in the water. I guess that's not the full truth, I did sublux it before with hand paddles.

FSM, I nor anyone else dissed your hand paddles, as it seemed by your defensive statements. Did you forget me asking about buying some awhile ago? If something offended you, please use the PM function built into this site. In most cases it could be a simple misunderstanding.

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Re: Shoulder Safety

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Wed 18 Apr 2012, 8:36 pm

I would like to say that I did not intend on getting into a pissing match, but I did not want people to think that hand paddling causes shoulder injuries when it can do so much to prevent them, and rehab them. With that being said I do fully believe that it helps build shoulder muscles as well as training you to stay "in the box". Regardless of who makes your hand paddles.
Now for an apology.
I am sorry if I have bombarded this forum, and others with my information that most of you seem to care less about. Set a side the fact that I am making them to sell. I have a strong passion for hand paddling, and want everyone to at least try it. Just as Jeff Young has put countless people in canoes. It is not for everyone, and not everyone is going to share our enthusiasm. (Canoes scare me to death, but they are fun.) Another reason I have been posting is because the only game in town has been Riveraholic for years, and I simply wanted people to know there was another option on the market now. It is not much different than months of LL Stomper post.
With that being said I will tone down my link posting, and try to only mention hand paddles if the relate to the topic or I post a video with them. I will also try to keep my website link contained to my footer, and on the right hand side of Utrivers.com
The last thing I want people to think that I am just trying to make a quick buck, and I do not care who I bring down in the process. That is not who I am. Thank you for your time.
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