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» Bear River Black Canyon Unscheduled Flows...
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» Bear River Black Canyon Extra Big Flows!
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» Bear River Black Canyon Release Schedule for 2017
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» Draft Report of the Pacificorp Relicensing of the Scrambled Eggs Diversion on the Weber
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regular Ogden canyon Release

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regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by brendanmackey on Mon 09 Jul 2012, 9:54 pm

Im actively planning and perusing a petition the bureau of reclamation for a weekly release on the narrows. if anyone has helpful information/ support i would greatly appreciate it. I will be bringing the petition around to all the regular gatherings to get signatures.

thanks
brendan
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Mon 09 Jul 2012, 10:20 pm

Good luck on weekly. I would be happy with monthly or three times a year. But if you could swing weekly I will buy you dinner Smile
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by PeruH2o on Tue 10 Jul 2012, 11:29 am

I support this. Let me know how I can help and where to sign.

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Andrew Phillips on Tue 10 Jul 2012, 12:27 pm

I will sign for sure

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by brendanmackey on Tue 10 Jul 2012, 12:56 pm

This is the start sign this online petition and im going to make a hard copy to hand out to retailers around town as well. please share this on ur facebook page to get the word out further. http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/ogdennarrowsrelease
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by telekopter2 on Tue 10 Jul 2012, 5:20 pm

signed. thanks brendan

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by wasatchbill on Thu 12 Jul 2012, 6:21 pm

PMd you Brendan. I support asking for 350. That is a reasonable level, and it would make the Pineview and Rainbow Gardens sections decent, so there would be good class III runs.

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Thu 12 Jul 2012, 10:17 pm

If you going to ask for something ask for 500 cfs at least.
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by afaust on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:02 pm

Sounds like you are going to get a variety of requests Brendan. Do you think it might be better to generate support and seek permission for a recreational release and then determine the size of that release later?

They may be willing to give us higher releases, but if we only ask for a low one we won't know what we missed out on or what might be available. Kind of like negotiating for a salary. You always want the other guy to offer first and then work from there.

It sounds like there is a lot more to consider than simply watering one small section of river.

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:15 pm

The fact is this is going to be hard. From what I understand (Which is very little on this subject) it takes a lot to get the release for the race. I agree with AJ. Lets see if we can get releases at all. If you think we will get weekly releases you are out of your mind. We live in a desert, and even in a place like the south east where it rains a lot more they do not do weekly releases on rivers. I would be happy with three weekends. One day of 800, and one day of 450 to 500. That way everyone can run it. I would love to have the narrows run everyday at 500 or more, but it will never happen. Good luck, but you need to come at this from a different angle, and you need to get american whitewater evolved you doing this by yourself will never work.
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by wasatchbill on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:38 pm

Well the first race releases were 350cfs, for 4 hours; on a Saturday from 10AM to 2 PM. There is plenty of precedent for that.
Recently Jeff has been able to get 450, and then 600 last year. I think 350 is a conservative release to ask for, in terms of water used, and safety issues. Doing safety for the races, generally speaking we've had more swimmers, the higher the flow is.

200 is bony. I have taken the most hits in there at ~230, hitting FU rocks in the upper section and flipping (also I had a lot less Narrows experience back then). Personally I think 500 would be great, but that is going to exclude some paddlers who are not comfortable with the Narrows at 350.
300 is also a good "first timer" flow imho, but its not as padded out as 350.
If we were paying for each cfs, I think 275 is the lowest where you can have a really clean run without hitting anything. I think 350 is probably the best "bang for the buck", or cfs, as it were.
Think of it this way. Suppose they said "you can have "1000cfs worth of water for 4 hours"; do you want one release at 1000, or two releases at 500, three at 333, or 4 at 250 (or 5 at 200)?" Each of those options is the same amount of water.
I would choose 3 at 333. Kind of a tough choice I guess. I know everyone is not going to agree on this, and the main issue will be to get any releases at all. Very Happy


Last edited by wasatchbill on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by afaust on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:50 pm

Let's be helpful not hurtful. Brendan is doing a service for the whole community and any efforts are greatly appreciated Smile

That being said Charlie would be a great person to call at AW. He is easy to talk with and has lots of experience in this sort of thing. American Whitewater is the largest and most effective advocate for whitewater that I know of and it can only help to get them involved.


Charlie Vincent:
Regional Representative
American Whitewater
Salt Lake City, UT
charliev@xmission.com
801-243-4892



~AJ


Last edited by afaust on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Charlie's contact info)

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by wasatchbill on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 4:59 pm

In years past we've had irrigation flows in the 200 to 275 range; I don't know what is up with this year. Maybe it was releases to fill Willard Bay or something.
It just bumped up to 135, lets get on it! Bring your rock boat. Or, as I heard someone say up north, "bring your playboat and your fullface helmet". :-)

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by mitchin on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 6:55 pm

+1

I think AJ and Bill nailed it.

...and thanks for the effort Brendan. Even if this attempt doesn't prove successful it builds more credibility for the next...


Last edited by mitchin on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : giving thanks where thanks is due...)

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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Fri 13 Jul 2012, 7:01 pm

First off it is not our job to hold the hand of paddlers that can't handle the river at a higher flow. 500 cfs is manageable by most boaters in the community. In my opinion it is one of the best flows, tons of character, and padded out. If people can't handle that they need to practice more, or not get on it. I would rather two releases at 500 cfs. 333 cfs is not worth the effort. I love how people say that we had more swimmers last year. Well we also had more people that should have not been on the river that day, and had not ran anything like it before. The narrows is not a hard river, and it has pretty much one line at all flows. Maybe we should put foam on all the rocks so class two boaters can feel safe. We should at least get 500 cfs. This seems like an asshole thing to say, but I am sick of people trying to make fairly safe rivers "safer" by lowering levels. What would you rather pin potential or pushy padded out flufflyness. I support the release, but not if we are going to piss it away on something that happens most years anyway.
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

Post by Jeff Young on Sat 14 Jul 2012, 1:20 pm

Do you people believe in Santa Claus still? Dear Santa- I want water, not too high not too low and make it warm safe and fluffy! Smile

Water is a key resource that is bartered, allocated and paid for by those using it and some years (like this one) its a rare commodity in the second driest state in the US. As someone who's actually gotten releases on the Ogden before, let me tell you the process is not something that a few signatures will suddenly cause the literal floodgates to open. Its akin to seeing a major roadway shut down for a large event/race and then trying to get that same road shut down because you and a few buddies want to bike down it reqularly. Would it be awesome to have the Ogden running at a perfect flow once a week all year regardless of the cost/snowpack/etc?..YES. Is it realistic? Absolutely not, what's more likely to happen is the select key individuals/agencies that have to be appeased to approve the race release (and the extra day of practice that I'm shooting for this year) will balk at the arrogance and lack of understanding put forth by those demanding regular releases and it will be harder to get what they've agreed to in the past. I was able to bump the water level for last year's race to 600cfs, and it wasn't easy. A big factor in getting it approved was the awesome and uncharacteristicly high snowpack levels and some negotiating done on our behalf by the City of Ogden.

The Ogden Race is Scheduled for Sept 22nd this year... stand by for updates. Volunteers please get with me to sign up. Big news this year as the race is featured in the Western Point Series and will bring new/more faces to the river.
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Re: regular Ogden canyon Release

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