Utah Rivers
Welcome and thanks for stopping by Utah Rivers.

A free place where Utah whitewater lovers can talk about rivers, meet new people, plan trips, etc...

If you haven't made an account, please do, as it will give you good karma. Help build the lively discussions Smile

By joining you will get....
- No Ads!
- Able to post to any board. Guest are only able to post to "Woah!!!" and "Lost and Found"
- Benefit of helping Utah's boating community grow.
- Great karma.
- Its free!
Latest topics
» Price Woodside to Swasey's
by Beth Blattenberger Thu 11 May 2017, 1:02 pm

» spanish fork
by cult Wed 26 Apr 2017, 1:28 pm

» abc?
by cult Wed 26 Apr 2017, 1:28 pm

» provo river
by cult Wed 26 Apr 2017, 1:06 pm

» Ocoee Whitewater Canoe For Sale
by andyhoffmann Sun 23 Apr 2017, 12:47 am

» Bear River Black Canyon Unscheduled Flows...
by charliev Wed 29 Mar 2017, 7:48 pm

» Bear River Black Canyon Extra Big Flows!
by charliev Fri 17 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm

» Jackson Fun
by eweiseth Wed 15 Mar 2017, 11:53 am

Flows
AW Utah River Runs Crystal Wave Eddy Flower CUWCD (Provo River) Joe's Valley Price (predicted) WKCC (Mobile Devices) River Forecast Center Murtaugh Evanston Playpark USGS
Statistics
We have 651 registered users
The newest registered user is stallgie

Our users have posted a total of 7794 messages in 1721 subjects

All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

View previous topic View next topic Go down

All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by afaust on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 1:54 am

Great info in my inexperienced opinion. Hoping at least one self support trip comes my way this next season. This guy is all about having the lowest possible impact on the environment and carrying a light load while retaining comfort on a trip.

There is a lot of info and some of it is more wordy than necessary. There is a table of contents on the left that goes topic by topic if you don't feel like reading the whole thing. Enjoy! Very Happy

http://www.earthenexposure.com/kayaking/home.htm

afaust

Posts : 257
Paddling Since : 1492
Location : Happy Valley :D

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by echymas on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 3:31 pm

this site has taken my whole morning. very good info. ive been gearing up for ultralight backpacking over the last 6 months. planned on using that gear in a self support trip too. looks like im on the right track. been seriously thinking about investing in a dry suit as well. i wish we had a local shop that stocked them to try on.

_________________
peaches come from a can, they were put there by a man.
avatar
echymas

Posts : 116

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by wasatchbill on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 9:59 pm

I heard you can try on some drysuits at the Backcountry.com outlet in West Valley. Was it IR? Don't recall what they stock; some brand I was not familiar with.

wasatchbill

Posts : 731

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Newty on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 10:41 pm

Self supported 4 days high water selway and 7 days low water Middle fork salmon last year. Some of the greatest river trips I've had and easily the greatest kayaking I've ever done, I know it's no lower mesa falls but i do what I can.
avatar
Newty

Posts : 64

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by afaust on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm

Sounds like you have had some good experience with this Paul. What kind of things do you recommend? I made this post with you in mind... Hoping that school commitments will allow me to hit your MFS trip next year.

afaust

Posts : 257
Paddling Since : 1492
Location : Happy Valley :D

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Flying_Spaghetti_Monster on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 11:18 pm

Newty wrote:Self supported 4 days high water selway and 7 days low water Middle fork salmon last year. Some of the greatest river trips I've had and easily the greatest kayaking I've ever done, I know it's no lower mesa falls but i do what I can.
Selway, and Middle Fork are most likely much cooler than Lower Mesa.
avatar
Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

Posts : 452
Paddling Since : 2009

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by echymas on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 11:22 pm

Hey thank for the tip Bill. I'll give them a call tomorrow. I would also appreciate any tips from Newty. Always better to learn from others experience IMO. Gear do's and don'ts would be helpful. Got any wish I would/wouldn't have stories?

_________________
peaches come from a can, they were put there by a man.
avatar
echymas

Posts : 116

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Cap'n RedBeard on Thu 30 Dec 2010, 12:57 pm

Newty wrote:Self supported 4 days high water selway and 7 days low water Middle fork salmon last year.

How does it compare to the Spanish Fork River?

_________________
You cant fall if you don't let go.
avatar
Cap'n RedBeard

Posts : 396
Paddling Since : 2008
Location : Salt Lake City, Utah

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Newty on Thu 30 Dec 2010, 7:50 pm

Cap'n RedBeard wrote:
Newty wrote:Self supported 4 days high water selway and 7 days low water Middle fork salmon last year.

How does it compare to the Spanish Fork River?

I self supported the spanish fork 3 times for 14 days each time.Even thought I camped at the same spot each night I still packed up and unpacked each day but I kept Elizabeth chained to the tree at my camp. It was AWESOME affraid


Last edited by Newty on Thu 30 Dec 2010, 9:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
avatar
Newty

Posts : 64

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by echymas on Thu 30 Dec 2010, 8:41 pm

Stellar advice. Thanks for the contribution.

_________________
peaches come from a can, they were put there by a man.
avatar
echymas

Posts : 116

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by afaust on Thu 30 Dec 2010, 10:31 pm

Lol... I was actually serious. I have been looking at Bivy Sacks, lighter and smaller packing sleeping bag, stove system and food options. Maybe I should just call you instead of asking you to toot your self supporting horn here on the forums...

So... when the cops found you with Elizabeth was that before or after they found you with no swim shorts on?

afaust

Posts : 257
Paddling Since : 1492
Location : Happy Valley :D

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Newty on Fri 31 Dec 2010, 12:14 am

echymas wrote:Stellar advice. Thanks for the contribution.

I had done some overnight self support before this year but I learned a lot from dowd and the boys from idaho. I have a -15 down bag in a garbage bag and then drybag.They do make sleeping bags out of other material than down but it'll take up half your boat. I use a Black diamond megamid for shelter msr pocketrocket stove with 2 cans of fuel, one will make it about 6 days. msr blacklite pots for cooking msr water filter, thermarest pad and chair, there is a new super dooper lite weight thermarest on the market that I wish I had. I take an extra jacketshell, a down jacket and fleece pants and chacos for my feet(although I just got some new five fingers for running and they may start boating with me too.) I eat lipton side dishes with tuna or salmon or chicken and I take oatmeal and poptarts for breaky, lunches are clif bars snickers and salami and cheese and crackers. I take 2- 32oz nalgene bottles for water and I take some koolaid powder too. I can also fit my flyrod in it's case and a box of flies. Keep in mind that a lot of rivers you're gonna self support will have required gear too, I use an aluminum turkey baster pan for the fire pan, a nesquik container and wagbags for shit(literally) and it works for ash can too, a cheesecloth for a strainer.small gardening spade for a shovel. I take handpaddles to avoid having to put a breakdown in my boat but if I had to use them for 7 days it would suck. I've ripped out the center pillars in my boat and taken out the bulkhead. I stuff my cooking stuff and sleeping bag upfront for a bulkhead. I have a throw rope in my boat and a wearable survival kit should I become separated from my boat, it's in a small nalgene strapped to me with a nrs wearable throwbag kit. I stocked it with food, iodine pills, fire starting equipment, knife and a folded up space blanket. I've also seen people put all this stuff in a vacuum' sealer to waterproof it all. Key is it needs to stay on your body if you swim. It also has my pin kit in it with biners prusiks webbing and pulleys. I've worked out a system that works for me. I use 6 small drybags because I can't afford the big ones shaped to fit a kayak. Everyone will have differing gear and differing boats and will have to work these things out on their own. I do several dry runs at packing in the convenience of my living room so as to not have problems on the water. I took a bivy on my selway trip. Bivy's are good if you get stuck somewhere and need shelter, they suck for a self support where it may rain all day everyday because if it's raining you can't get in or out without getting wet and you can't eat or hang out without getting wet. This was the biggest lesson I learned from dowd. Like I said, I've been on some amazing river trips, I paddled all 277 miles of the Grand Canyon and it was nice to have raft support. Self support kayaking is a whole new deal and it is fantastic. There is something inherently pure about loading everything you need to survive a week in the Frank Church River of no return wilderness into your creek boat and shoving off on crystal clear waters. I'm by no means a pro at it but I have my own system dialed. Happy to answer anything else. One more thing, if you bring a 5 lbs Elk roast to cook on sticks the first 2 nights, cut it into small strips then skewer and roast, large chunks cook slowly and are tougher. You can fit a lot more in a creeker than you think but you HAVE to get creative with it. Last thing, I put a drybag where my front pillar was between my legs then sit another drybag on my lap, tied in loosely so it falls out of the way if I have to get out. Do a dry run at home with EVERYTHING in your boat and make damn sure you can still get out if you have to.
avatar
Newty

Posts : 64

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by afaust on Fri 31 Dec 2010, 2:02 am

Just what I was looking for Very Happy Thanks!

Do you worry about the pillar not being strong enough to support the boat in the even of a bad pin? How much extra weight is added to your boat with all that gear?

afaust

Posts : 257
Paddling Since : 1492
Location : Happy Valley :D

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Vertder Miff on Mon 17 Jan 2011, 1:28 am

When this topic was first started, I didn't know much about self-support. However, I just got done with a self-support trip from Lee's Ferry to Diamond Creek in the Grand Canyon and can now contribute to this thread.

We were in LiquidLogic Remix XP's. The boat was provided for me for the trip, but I liked the XP10 so much that I bought it at the end of the trip. I can't say enough good things about it. It's very comfortable, the skeg is great for flat water, and there's tons of room in it. At 10 feet long and over 100 gallons, it's a big boat. However, I felt fine running all of the rapids in it even though it was loaded down with 12 days worth of gear. It's also super easy to roll. Just to be sure, I tested it's rollability in three separate rapids through the trip. Smile

If you'll be doing trips that require a groover, you can modify the front pillar to incorporate a PVC groover into its structure. That's what we did for the Grand Canyon. Instructions can be found here:

http://kayakcamping.amongstit.com/2010/03/25/the-groover-aka-personal-human-waste-management-system/

Also, I recommend splurging on whatever dry bag you'll be keeping your sleeping bag in. In other words, you should get a Watershed.
avatar
Vertder Miff

Posts : 201

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Compton Boater on Mon 17 Jan 2011, 10:31 pm

Bring lots and lots of food. The 5lb elk roast is key. Do not rely on lipton noodles and tuna, you will doing yourself a disservice. You can always fit a couple more bratwursts and such in so splurge. I have ran completely out of food 3 times and it is rough. Running out of coffee is even rougher.

This is a funny quote in that article: As a consideration.....
Over consumption is the root to the worlds environmental problems.



Consumption is what makes life great for the entire world. Consumption is the only reason there is fat rockered skis and awesome kayaks and SUP's. Skiis would be skinny with leather ankle breaker bindings and no edges, invented for warfare guring WW2 rather than consumption. Consumption is the only reason there are plastic creek boats to go self supporting in and playboats to surf. Consumption is the only reason there is freeze dried food to bring on overnight trips or lightweight sleeping bags to sleep in. Consumption is the only reason there is software to make forums like this one. Consumption is why they have invented electric cars, solar power, wind power and recycling. It is also basically the only reason the countries of the world don't fight eachother. I am not sure what is scarier to think about, people actually believing Glenn Beck or people actually believing this stuff.

I think the latter is scarier b/c I don't mind a few crazies who believe Beck running around as much as I mind someone taking away my kayaks, fat rockered skis and SUP's. Additionally people who spend time on the rivers and in the mountains are the environments greatest advocates. Without toys this is not possible.

Compton Boater

Posts : 93

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Newty on Mon 17 Jan 2011, 11:35 pm

Vertder Miff wrote:When this topic was first started, I didn't know much about self-support. However, I just got done with a self-support trip from Lee's Ferry to Diamond Creek in the Grand Canyon and can now contribute to this thread.

We were in LiquidLogic Remix XP's. The boat was provided for me for the trip, but I liked the XP10 so much that I bought it at the end of the trip. I can't say enough good things about it. It's very comfortable, the skeg is great for flat water, and there's tons of room in it. At 10 feet long and over 100 gallons, it's a big boat. However, I felt fine running all of the rapids in it even though it was loaded down with 12 days worth of gear. It's also super easy to roll. Just to be sure, I tested it's rollability in three separate rapids through the trip. Smile

If you'll be doing trips that require a groover, you can modify the front pillar to incorporate a PVC groover into its structure. That's what we did for the Grand Canyon. Instructions can be found here:

http://kayakcamping.amongstit.com/2010/03/25/the-groover-aka-personal-human-waste-management-system/

Also, I recommend splurging on whatever dry bag you'll be keeping your sleeping bag in. In other words, you should get a Watershed.

Glad you had a good trip. 12 days is a fairly quik paddle to diamond. How much did the Hualapai charge to take out at diamond? I'm planning 18 days lees to pearce. How was your weather? The XP seems like the perfect boat for a GC self support and they advertised it as such when it came out. so what rapids had your #? I at shit sandwiches in 24 1/2 and I ran the eat in Lava and rolled twice. Once was the most violent roll of my paddling history. Anyway, glad you got to see the big ditch. Lot's of flat water but still, it's the Grand Canyon and it just don't get much betta.

Laters

Fat Newty
avatar
Newty

Posts : 64

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Vertder Miff on Mon 17 Jan 2011, 11:55 pm

We paid $74 each to take out at Diamond Creek. I thought 12 days felt like an appropriate amount of time. Since there were no rafts in our party, we were able to move at a pretty good pace. It would have been nice to do a little more hiking, though. One party of five kayakers that passed us was doing it in seven days! Averaging 32 miles in the short winter days doesn't really appeal to me. However, it is better than not kayaking the Grand Canyon if that's what it comes down to.

Fortunately, I stayed upright in all of the bigger rapids. A wave in Georgie rapid flipped me on the second day. On the fifth day, I wandered into a hole near the bottom of Nevills Rapid and flipped. During a moment of complacency on the mostly flat water near Granite Narrows, I floated into a hole on river left and flipped.

I'm stoked to do some more self-support this year.
avatar
Vertder Miff

Posts : 201

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by rusty on Wed 19 Jan 2011, 11:02 pm

Compton Boater wrote:
This is a funny quote in that article: As a consideration.....
Over consumption is the root to the worlds environmental problems.



Consumption is what makes life great for the entire world. Consumption is the only reason there is fat rockered skis and awesome kayaks and SUP's. Skiis would be skinny with leather ankle breaker bindings and no edges, invented for warfare guring WW2 rather than consumption. Consumption is the only reason there are plastic creek boats to go self supporting in and playboats to surf. Consumption is the only reason there is freeze dried food to bring on overnight trips or lightweight sleeping bags to sleep in. Consumption is the only reason there is software to make forums like this one. Consumption is why they have invented electric cars, solar power, wind power and recycling. It is also basically the only reason the countries of the world don't fight eachother. I am not sure what is scarier to think about, people actually believing Glenn Beck or people actually believing this stuff.

I think the latter is scarier b/c I don't mind a few crazies who believe Beck running around as much as I mind someone taking away my kayaks, fat rockered skis and SUP's. Additionally people who spend time on the rivers and in the mountains are the environments greatest advocates. Without toys this is not possible.

Actually, it appears you overlooked the word "over" in the word over-consumption. Read the page and you might be surprised that we're in agreement
. And don't worry. I ain't taking your kayak.

Peace

rusty

Posts : 1
Paddling Since : 92

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: All Things Self-Support.... in a kayak ofc =D

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum